Life, or something like it...

[annwfyn]

So, I'm back from sunny Porthcawl, where pierot and I have been for the past couple of days. Jez's parents were very lovely, and his mother fed us both lots. And lots. Relentlessly. Endlessly. I put on weight just sitting in the living room! But the food tasted good, so I guess that is what matters.

Now I'm back, and heading off to see my supervisor this morning, having skived off work in order to do so. I'm beginning to sense that I'm not going to get a great report from Cancer Research UK to my temp agency when I leave. I think other temp agencies will be needed. I think I resent, on some level, being screwed for just having other commitments that I was always very honest about having, but c'est la vie.

In cat related news, my kittens are really growing up. Increasingly these days they don't look like kittens - they are cats. I'm due to have them neutered soon and they eat more and more every day.

I'm also pondering the question of "should cats be allowed outside". A while ago I mentioned my cats and their tentative entrance to the world outside the house, and was mildly surprised by some of the responses I got. I was raised, you see, believing that cats mostly need some access to the outdoor world, and it's cruel to keep them penned up inside. All the cats my family ever had were primarily outdoors cats, with my grandfather keeping cats on his farm exclusively out in the farmyard and barns. They kept the mice and rats down, he fed them, but he never let them in the house. They always seemed incredibly happy and bouncy cats. When I got my TauCat, I always felt guilty for keeping him in as much as I did, especially when he ran to the window in summer and would stare out at the sunshine or try and climb out on the windowsil.

However, the response I got from a couple of people (specifically Americans, which was interesting) was that it was slightly irresponsible to let one's cats outdoors, and they should be kept inside. Interestingly, an American book on Cornish Rex cats very much says the same thing, whereas the UK breeders I've met have rather the opposite idea. Is this a transatlantic thing? Is it more of a town/country divide? What do you guys (specifically, you cat owners or ex cat owners) think?

Comments

[headinclouds.livejournal.com]

I've always thought that cats should definitely be allowed outside, and if you live somewhere where you can't let them out, don't keep cats. They need more room to roam, exercise and generally behave in a cat-like manner than the average house or flat has, so how else do you give them the space they need?
You do get the odd cat that seems to have no interest in the world outside, and I guess if they just don't want to, that's fine, but I really, really don't agree with keeping cats indoors all the time. I know my cat certainly would have hated being kept in all the time, and even Tau when he was very poorly still had an interest in going outside and seemed to get some enjoyment out of it, so I think it would have been unnecessarily harsh to have not let them.

And be fair to yourself, Tau did get outside, and when he did he had the whole of Holyrood Park to roam in.

[tooth-fairy.livejournal.com]

I always presumed that cats went outdoors

[castorpollux23.livejournal.com]

I'd go on a cat by cat basis. Some of the cats down at my Dad's ranch, jeez, I wouldn't want to bring them inside for anything. (Of course, they are also vicious hellspawn that fight off Coyotes and win, so that says something there.)

Your kitties, well, I'd make sure to at least get them fixed before you let them romp outside overmuch. (This will prevent them from running off/getting into fights/making more kittens-- they're getting old enough to start thinking about such things.) But your kittens didn't seem overly bothered with being indoor kitties. Also, if you do let them outdoors, make sure they've got all their shots. Cats can get some nasty viruses, such as FLV, (Feline Lukemia virus).

I'd definately say it's a transatlantic thing. Americans have a thing for pets. But some cats that have been raised indoors do have trouble coping outdoors.

There's my ramble. :) Welcome back to London, btw. I'm back too! I have Idaho goodies.

[hildekitten.livejournal.com]

In my personal opinion, the cat being indoors or outdoors is entirely up to where you live.
When I had cat when still living at my parents, they were _always_ outdoor cats. Sure we kept them in after dark (out of fear of them getting run over in the dark) but they were allowed out all day long.
Because it was a safe neighbourhood for cats, I think in one street, we had 15+ cats.
People put food outside, so the cats could eat where they wanted, and ok we had some cat hating folk, but the cats quickly enough learned to avoid their gardens you know.

Merlijn however, is an inside cat. We live in a neighbourhood that would be FANTASTIC (loads of fields and moors) for a cat. Were it not for the two stupid hunters on our street that kill cats on sight.
So were it not for the fact that he'd get killed, I'd let him outside.

To me, it depends on the safety of my cat.

[commlal.livejournal.com]

Americans have funny ideas about cats, they also declaw cats over their, yuck.

Certainly, cats can be indoor or outdoor. When I lived with my mother, all of our cats were outside cats and still are. But that is in the wilds of scotland, fairly remote and quiet. Living in Glasgow all of my cats are indoor, and rarely show any interest in the outside. One Christmas my sister was staying and didnt realise that the front door didnt catch too well so it blew open whilst I was napping and she was watching DVDs. It was open for about two hours, but when I found it open, I also found Ivy and Neo daring each other to run up to the front door and look out.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

In many areas in Australia it is illegal to let your cat out at night, because they hunt and kill native wildlife for the fun of it.

[melsner.livejournal.com]

I once saw a documentary on "feral cats" in Australia. Domestic cats that had escaped into the outback and gone wild. Was the scariest thing I'd ever seen in my life. Swarms of little fluffy cats bringing down large Australian critters. Like tiny little tigers.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

You're scared of feral cats? Wait 'til you meet a drop bear!

[melsner.livejournal.com]

What the hell is a drop bear? Is it when someone drops a bear on you?

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

Somewhat like a koala bear, but with longer claws and a tendency to drop on small and large animals from tree-branches. There's a more technical name for them, but no one ever uses it. In australia everything really is trying to kill you, even the cute things.

A wombat will rip you car's transmission out if you hit one at speed, the wombat will die, quite probably so will you. A drop bear can snap your neck if it comes from high enough. A kangaroo is perfectly balanced on its legs so if you hit it with a car it will come directly through your windscreen. Even bloody possums have such lethal bacteria in their mouths that being bitten by one will eventually result in you going to hospital.

[melsner.livejournal.com]

Gee, Ben, why did you move to England?

[castorlion.livejournal.com]

Is it true they're planning organised drop bear culls in Aus this year?

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

I was talking to Mum the other day about this, she said that they'd decided to cancel them as they aren't very effective, unlike in a 'roo cull the bears are much more camouflaged and any cull generaly has to take place at night, which is just too dangerous.

[ravenseer.livejournal.com]

Damn Drop Bears..... *sniggers* .... Aussie humor... :)

But the wombats, and the kangaroos are both true stories, I've seen wombats wreak semi's and walk away from it....

[hildekitten.livejournal.com]

A koala that let's itself fall down on tourist's heads :)
Apparently the rumour started (or so I was told by Monty) by a Japanese tourist startling a koala with the flashlight of his camera. The koala fell out of the tree, on the tourist's head and held on in a panic, even when the tourist started running about (also in panic no doubt).
Hence the term, "drop-bear" :)

I thought it was a funny story :)

[melsner.livejournal.com]

Does Belgium have drop bears, too?

[hildekitten.livejournal.com]

Only in Planckendael (one of the zoos), where one actually let itself fall on one of the caretakers.
Who ended up needing stitches on both arms.

I think he went back to taking care of the lions after that, whom are (on the contrary to the koala's) just overgrown and very tame housecats :)

I remember my mum (who was friends with someone whom's brother and husband worked there) telling that story in a very amused sort of way. Mainly to terrify my then boyfriend, who was koala-phobic.

[melsner.livejournal.com]

Someone has a Koala phobia?

[hildekitten.livejournal.com]

yes my ex Wouter.
It was all very silly and amusing.
For everyone except Wouter of course :)

[melsner.livejournal.com]

His name is Wouter and he has a fear of Koalas?

[vulgarcriminal.livejournal.com]

I had a half and half deal. My little furball was kept mostly indoors but I let her out when I was home. Then she would pick fights with Tom cats. :)

[kizzie.livejournal.com]

it's very much an american thing that its cruel to let cats go outdoors, but in england I don't think this has ever been the case... I would end up having to look at it from a point of view of where do I live? and would they be safe there? (ie: no huge busy roads near by)

Cats

[melsner.livejournal.com]

Bloody Americans... I suspect that of the American advice that you're getting is from the city and the suburbs. I grew up on a farm (no, really), so we had indoor cats, outdoor cats and cats that swang both ways.

I think that here most people are worried about cats getting run over or tortured by ten-year-old potential serial killers.

This is meant to sound complimentary and envious rather than superior, but I think that even a London suburb has a more rustic feel than most US suburbs. Less worried about letting cats run around.

Also, English cats may just be more responsible and self-reliant than American cats.

You could experiment with /on your cats. Let run roam around outside and use the other as the "test group."

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

Another way to look at this... think of the funky cat books out there, the one that comes to mind immediately is Carbonel... was Carbonel not allowed out?

[headinclouds.livejournal.com]

And on a related note....

WHERE ARE THE PICTURES, DAMMIT? WE NEED CUTE CAT PICTURES!

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

It's cruel to let cats out of the house. They evolved over millions of years to be entirely sedentary creatures, perfectly adapted to lying on sofas. When cats were evolving in Africa, they did so in house-shaped rock formations where food was readily available and as such they never developed the instincts or skills required to survive beyond the limited confines of the house.

/sarcasm.

[headinclouds.livejournal.com]

*sniggers*

[bringeroflight.livejournal.com]

Oh, you've met Sarah's cats, then. ;-P

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

Oi!

[ravenseer.livejournal.com]

lol.... then you have never met my two boys.... lol.... luna is a hunter - british short hair, white, and malley's a ginger bi-color built like a lion...

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

My two started off as indoor cats - I was living in a second floor flat at the time. They had been indoor cats all their lives, according to the cat rescue people, and didn't seem to miss it much, though they enjoyed swearing at the birds through the lounge window.

Then I moved to a ground floor flat, where they could go out. The first time, they were basically agoraphobic "eek, where's the ceiling!" but got to enjoy it and learned to kill things. I then moved to Newtoft Street and they had the run of the gardens and the mechanic's yard at the back. They seemed to enjoy this, though they never stayed out for long, and their territory was only small - three tiny back gardens and the yard.

Then I needed to move to the Shore and they had to be kept in - I had big problems with Lucha and "pee-mail" and Libre would sit under the open window and sniff the air. It broke my heart at the time.

At the cattery, Libre was let in and out after he got out one night and came back OK. Lucha didn't show much interest, and didn't soil the house. I think on reflection her distress at Commercial Street was more to do with the dog in the flat next door than anything.

I've not let them out as yet in Tokyo, although we do have a roof terrace that we've tried. Lucha immediately hid under the air conditioning unit so we've not tried that again! Neither of them seem to be missing the outside, so I might not let them out - at present there's a construction site opposite which I'm not keen on them exploring, and there's really not that much for them to go out to, because there's almost no green space.

I think it depends on what they are used to. I did notice my two improved in jumping confidence when they were allowed out. Mine are getting older, which I think might have an effect on how much exploring they want to do. They seem happy enough in the house at the moment, but then it is a pretty big space.

[kathminchin.livejournal.com]

I'd go with:

Cats need access to outdoors. Unless you're living in a situation like poor Hilde (can I come over and shoot them?) they should have access. They, being cats, will decide if they want to go out. Most cats are more than capable of coping with cars - my parents live in a close in which the cats just look at the cars as they come in with insolent interest, and then saunter off out the way. Obviously a busy road is another matter, but then they tend to stick to the back gardens. It's if they move from quiet countryside to busy town that they tend not to have learned how to deal with traffic.

I feel sorry for the American "pampered pets" who don't get access to the outside. In my experience, unless we're talking fish all animals benefit from getting access to the outside air. Heck, I used to let my hamsters run around in a "mini rabbit run" during the summer - and they used to sit and eat the grass quite happily (and occasionally escape, but then I did have one called Holly Houdini.)

[hildekitten.livejournal.com]

yes you can!
I swear to go they do my head in.
During hunting season I have to be kept in and my crossbow is firmly banned from the flat (I wonder why, odd that).

It just drives me loopy, here we are, living in cat paradise and it's _impossible_ to let your cat out.
There were people brave (or stupid, we're not sure yet) to let their cat outside in this street.
After a week it was found dead at the back door, having dragged itself back home after being shot.

Cruel as I may seem for keeping Merlijn indoors, I nearly have to cry just thinking that could happen to him.

[ravenseer.livejournal.com]

The question I would ask, is are they male or female.
If they are female, do not let them out till they are neutered. If they are male, there is a risk of fighting with other cats, and generally I'd say start them off with supervised outings, and do not let them out at night.

If they are female you are at risk of them going into heat depending on their age, and unless you want kittens, then my advice is don't till after they are neutered.