Random ponderings...

[annwfyn]

This case, and a conversation with ksirafai over the weekend has got me pondering.

There are a series of Science Fiction novels by Lois McMaster Bujold about an assortment of futuristic societies. One society - Beta Colony - has a series of laws about child rearing. Everyone is compulsorarily fitted with a contraceptive implant at puberty, and should they wish to produce children they are required to prove to the government that they are financially able to support a child, have a support structure about them, and pass a parenting test before the implant may be removed. The same procedure has to be gone through for every child a person wishes to have.

Is this a utopia or a dystopia?

Comments

[suave-steve.livejournal.com]

Well these guys would say it was a utopia... (http://www.eugenics.net/index.shtml)

[castorlion.livejournal.com]

Slightly off-topic, but I originally misread the URL as www.welsh.com, and spent a very confused five minutes thinking that Wales had definitely gone strange since the last time I visited..

[twisted-times.livejournal.com]

A utopia for those who hate kids and a dystopia for those who beleive in liberty.

Then again, every time (in reality of fiction) a utopia is created, it ends up turning into a dystopia..

[suave-steve.livejournal.com]

Yep, for those that support the system and gain the benefits of it - utopia. For anyone that loses out it becomes a dystopia.

Everyone would live in the Brave New World as long as they were an Alpha and not a Delta.

[(Anonymous)]

Why wouldn't you want to be a Delta? The whole point of Brave new World is that if you were a Delta, you'd really enjoy it.

[suave-steve.livejournal.com]

True within the bounds of it you'd be happy because you'd have no perception of it being anything different. But in a debate on the topic based on outside knowledge of the system you are aware that Delta's are only happy because they have been 'programmed' that way and that they have artificial limitations placed on their potential which you as the outside debater don't.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

I'd disagree with it being a utopia for those who hates kids. I, personally, am pretty damn fond of kids, and it really bugs me that there are so many potentially wonderful people being screwed up and messed around by irresponsible parents. I used to work with troubled children. I honestly believe that every single kid with a headful of mess could probably trace it back to their parents in one way or another.

I do, obviously, see the downsides to controlled breeding, but honestly I do sometimes wonder why the hell we don't try and give out parenting licenses. You need a license to drive a car. How come anyone gets to take sole responsibility for the mental health, development and life of another human being?

[raggedhalo.livejournal.com]

Because, in biological terms, the sole purpose of human existence is to create children.

If we moved away from the individualistic notion of childrearing and returning it to being more of a community-focused activity, things would be greatly improved.

[wildrogue.livejournal.com]

I've often thought that. Aldus Huxley's 'Island' struck me as a remarkably sane if ultimately unworkable idea, even if it was only written to prove the point that Utopias can't exist in a modern world.

[raggedhalo.livejournal.com]

Kibbutzism has many advantages...

[twisted-times.livejournal.com]

Well, such measures would stop the chavs from breeding...

[castorpollux23.livejournal.com]

Hmm...

That depends on your political ideology, but I think I really need to read these books and add them to my thesis!

[nadriel.livejournal.com]

I don't believe they go into all that much depth on the Beta Colony laws- the focus of most of the series is from somewhere else, one Miles Vorkosigan. That said a) I might be wrong and it might be covered in more detail in some of the books- it's been a while since I read them, and b) They're damn good anyway, and so well worth reading!

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

The first two books - the ones about Cordelia - go into a fair bit more detail. I think they are sold together now as one book - Cordelia's Honour.

All the books have a surprising amount about child bearing and family from different sci-fi perspectives tho.

[nadriel.livejournal.com]

Ah- it's been a long time since I read Shards of Honour and the other Cordelia one. I keep going back to the Miles-as-Auditor books...

"So, if you ordered it, they'd shoot?"

"If I ordered it, they'd shoot themselves"

Hehehe

[crocodilewings.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just topiary.

I'm not sure it's ethical (however desirable it may be in some cases) to prevent people from breeding. That said, I'm positive it's not ethical to allow unfit parents to rear a child. So people should be able to produce as many kids as they want, but shouldn't be able to raise them unless they can actually be responsible for them.

This, it should be pointed out, is clearly rubbish.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

In concpt it's a utopia... no unwante pregnancies, a government that helps you decide when is right... but then it depends on how limiting the laws are and how hard it is to get a license.

[wildrogue.livejournal.com]

Personally I'd consider it a Utopia - but I've always believed in parenting exams. Of course there are so many ways this system could be horribly abused but it would solve problems like overcrowding.

Having children isn't, in my opinion, a god given right. It is a priviledge and in many cases a miracle that we often abuse. Pretty soon we're going to have to come to terms with the fact that the earth is getting over-crowded and do something about it.

I support laws...

[sentina.livejournal.com]

"Parenting is the easiest job to get -- you just have to screw up once and it's yours."
----- Dennis Miller

I think he also went on to say that you have to get permits for driving, gun posession, and marrige. All three of these things carry potentially dangerous consequences. Why don't we have "proof of capability" laws for having children?

I think the global population would head toward zero or no population growth. The effect on the environment would be more than benificial. I also think it would reduce abuse, especially if the people set to monitor victems of abuse were freed of that responcibility and started preventing the abuse that was missed in the verification process.

Then again, any laws made by man inevitably go wrong...

[silverclear.livejournal.com]

I had cause to bring MIM's blog entry about parenting without a license (http://morphingintomama.typepad.com/morphing_into_mama/2005/07/parenting_witho.html) to somone else's attention recently, and it's really bugging me who it was. livejournal somewhere. but can't remember where!

anyway, it seems topical, in my corner of the interwebs.

[melsner.livejournal.com]

If a judge can order me not to have sex, I'm in trouble.