On magic and festivals...

[annwfyn]

I went to Mass for All Saints yesterday.* It was a very pretty Mass, by the way, with a lot of chanting in Latin. There was also a guest preacher at the church I'd gone to, who's sermon was on All Saints, All Souls, and why Christianity does traditional celebrate a festival at this time of year.

Now, I know everyone and their dog has heard the old line 'the Christians nicked this pagan festival when they weren't looking'. This preacher took a slightly different tac which I found interesting. His line was that All Souls, in particular, comes from Ireland. According to this (very nice, Anglo-Catholic man) there has always been a celebration of this nature in Ireland because (and I quote) 'this is the turning of the year, the time when the boundary between the material world and the spiritual world is less substantial'. Or, in gamer geek terms, this is the time of year when as a matter of almost objective fact, the shroud is a bit lower, so of course that's when people celebrate their festivals of the dead.

Not so much a case of Christianity nicking someone else's festival. More a case of people celebrating at certain times of year because there is a spiritual landscape, there are times when certain things are more likely to occur.

He then went on to talk about St Christina the Astonishing, who hid in an oven to hide from the smell of sin, which was much more colourful, and I should note as well that the local priest murmured to me as I left "that was a slightly heretical sermon", but it did get me thinking. I thought it might be of especial interest to lanfykins considering recent discussions on the Community Which Shall Not Be Named about why various different cultures seem to have very similar festivals at the same time of year.

Feel free to debate, discuss, or just ignore.


*This revelation is made only to set the scene for the rest of this entry. Please try and mostly ignore it.

Comments

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

'this is the turning of the year, the time when the boundary between the material world and the spiritual world is less substantial'

Well, of course :)

I left a candle burning in my window, and there was a plate of cakes and cider ready for any guests, but none showed up.

Then again, the only dead I really care about tend to come on four legs.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

So far no one has come to visit me either. I didn't even have weird dreams. I fear I may just be Not Spiritual. :p

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

On the bright side, it means I still have the cider. Mmm, cider :)

[pmp.livejournal.com]

I fear I may just be Not Spiritual

This statement, even as a joke, puzzles me. Surely it's not how many experiences you believe you've had, but how many you believe that can happen that defines your spirituality?

It's why I'm skeptic of self proclaimed psychics, not because I think it's impossible, but because I think that anyone who has genuine abilities would not be so centred in this world to care about things like fame or money.


As for the similar dates between festivals, it seems implausible for them NOT to be at the same point. After all, like many other things humans create, we draw from what has gone before with the occasional breakthrough idea. Why treat religion any differently than say, books or movies in examing how they reached that point?

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

This statement, even as a joke, puzzles me. Surely it's not how many experiences you believe you've had, but how many you believe that can happen that defines your spirituality?

I don't know. I've known a lot of people who describe their experiences and a lot of what has happened to them seems to have come from something which is intrinsic to them - people who claim to be able to read the future in tarot cards, or people who claim to experience the presence of spirits of the dead etc. I don't know if I necessarily believe all that I've been told, but I know that I've never had any experiences like this. I'm not someone who talks to ghosts, or has these magical experiences.

If you believe in those things happening, and believe that they happen because the people who experience this have some kind of innate spiritual sensitivity, then I don't have that!

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

It's why I'm skeptic of self proclaimed psychics, not because I think it's impossible, but because I think that anyone who has genuine abilities would not be so centred in this world to care about things like fame or money.

I like your thinking.

[omentide.livejournal.com]

You tempt me to quote Blake, only I can't work out which bit...

Reality is OUT THERE. We interpret it through the filters of our cultures and beliefs.

I'm not talking Platonic reality either. It's more straight astronomy, the turning of the planet.

A point in time half way between the autumn equinox and the winter solstice. People seem to have a need to celebrate that in some way. Turning of the year.

[pmp.livejournal.com]

Accepting the things can happen to me is far more important than having them happen to you. After all, we can't all have the gene for blonde hair, any more than we can have the gene for talking to the dead.

However what is important is what we believe in.

[pmp.livejournal.com]

:) there's a first time for everything

[melsner.livejournal.com]

Saint Christina the Astonishing sounds like a changeling concept that someone has to play.

[melsner.livejournal.com]

i have a different standard. I don't count mystical experiences... I judge by sheer weirdness and odd timing of things that happen to me.

By that standard, you're one of the more spiritual people I know.

[ellroy.livejournal.com]

Christina the Astonishing is, I think, one of my favourite saints. I saw your post in anglican - would you mind if I add you?

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

*grins*

The priest finished up his sermon on St Christina with the line "and I think what this story shows us, is that God's love is not simply for the sane", which made me giggle a lot. I then went and read up on St Christina and nearly changed my mind totally about my confirmation name.

Feel free to add me! :)

[ellroy.livejournal.com]

Thanks :-)