Sally&#39;s Journal

I never understood why people freak out over being called privileged.

Do people think it means "rich fop" or something?

Edited Date: 2008-09-15 12:25 pm (UTC)

From:

crocodilewings.livejournal.com

I promise I'm not trying to be an arse. I just want to understand how this works.

If I were to come from humble beginnings, and without the luxury of expensive education struggle to get a well-paid job, so I could raise my children in such a way that they had a life of privilege, who would they have to repay that to?

From:

crocodilewings.livejournal.com

I'd also like to apologise for asking you what must seem like an awful lot of quite silly questions. It's nothing personal.

From:

I think so. The conversation I think I see a lot is something along the following lines.

Person 1: You have male privilege.

Person 2: What do you mean, I'm privileged? I was raised in total poverty and used to work 26 hours per day down a mine pit, before walking barefoot over broken glass back to the iron maiden where I slept. I'm not privileged.

Person 1: I didn't say you were privileged in all areas. You didnt have class privilege, which Tarquin over there blatantly does...

Tarquin: Whatho! I was raised in a palace, you know? And what is this thing called work?

Person 1:..anyway. As I was saying. You didn't have class privilege. You did and do have male privilege, which means that certain things are easier because you're a bloke - you don't have people dismiss your emotions as being 'well, just that time of the month', you can have kids without it messing with your career, no one will look at you funny at job interviews in case you do have kids, and the odds of you facing sexual or domestic violence are much much smaller.

Person 2: BUT I WALKED OVER BROKEN GLASS!

Person 1: Yes. But that's not the same as being a woman.

Person 2: BROKEN GLASS! AND THERE WAS THIS ONE TIME WE HAD TO EAT COAL FOR DINNER.

Tarquin: Gosh, that does sound rather like Eton. Does that mean I'm not privileged either?

Person 1: I think I'm losing the will to live.

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I think the idea isn't that you owe a specific debt to People Who You Hurt. I think the idea is that you pay it on to those less fortunate. At least, that's how I see it.

I would hope in your case that your kids would be grateful to you for giving them the class privilege they enjoy, but also aware that they were given that and didn't have to work for it. Furthermore, they would probably have some privileges that you didn't work for either - they would be white, maybe male, hopefully able bodied. Those are privileges they just kinda acquired and it would be nice if they wanted to help change the world so that those who were not born with those gifts would still have access to all the good stuff that comes from it.

Does that sort of make sense?

From:

Yeah there's different types of priviledge.

I eat well, live in a country without extreme laws over my body, a free health care system and a system that looks after you when you are unemployed. I'm not priviledged in other areas, such as my sex and the fact that I am mentally ill.

I don't get what's so wrong with admitting that.

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also: ahahahaha "Tarquin"

From:

adze.livejournal.com

I had loads of trouble sleeping last night. I think it was 1 by the time I was even in bed, and I then spent ages trying to drop off.

I don't know if it was the post gaming come-down, where I frequently don't sleep properly after a gaming weekend - my brain just doesn't shut down for ages on a Sunday night - how bright it was last night, or anything else, but it was a real struggle.

And this doesn't help when you wake up at 6 to start waking up for work.

From:

~grins~

I think I've met Tarquin before. Honestly, I have this horrible feeling I've been Tarquin before. I was totally raised with privilege of all sorts - class privilege, western privilege, white privilege, able bodied privilege - and I think it wasn't that fun saying 'yeah - I was totally a spoilt brat'.

Part of what made it kinda hard for me was that a load of my adolescence, in particular, was really miserable, with Mum dying etc. It was kinda tough to look at time of complete suffering and say "gee...I was lucky".

Edited Date: 2008-09-15 12:49 pm (UTC)

From:

reindeerflotila.livejournal.com

I am quiet happy to be gratfeul for the various priv's I am afforded by SOciety, thank you very much, world.

however, I think it is important to reiterate that there is a difference in acknowlegdement of Priv's and becoming an apologist regarding them.

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I think some people equate white priviledge with being racist, so being offended by it is a kneejerk reaction.

I've been told I'm racist because I have a white father, which is just stupid.

If they had said "you are priviledged because you look sort of white" I might have understood.

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What's the difference?

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I've seen someone claim that there is no such thing as ma;e privilege, and that women have all the privilege because they get served in the chip shop first.

I'm not joking.

From:

crocodilewings.livejournal.com

I get the concept of privilege. I don't necessarily think it's the best model to use when dealing with social inequality, but I understand its appeal.

What I don't get is how you (she/they/whatever) can say that on the one hand having privilege doesn't carry the responsibility of guilt, but on the other hand having privilege does carry the responsibility of having to make restitution.

It strikes me as saying "don't feel guilty for having privilege, feel guilty for not using it to fulfil my political objectives".

From:

Wow, that's a new one. Usually it's the old chestnut about how women can get sex whenever they like.

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It probably is. With the person saying it thinking of it as 'don't feel guilty for having privilege - feel guilty if you don't use it to do the right thing'.

Essentially, from my point of view, trying to do the right thing by other people and trying to make sure everyone has access to some of the benefits of privilege is a bit like bending over to help someone in the street after someone else has just kicked them to the kerb. Just on a larger level. If someone walks past in front of me, saying loudly "well, I didn't kick them to the kerb. Not my problem", then I won't think 'damn them for not being on that kerb', but I may well think 'christ - why the hell didn't that w*nker do anything to help'.

I think that's the kind of feel that's meant to be engendered by the 'don't feel guilty about having privilege, feel guilty about perpetuating it' line.

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There was a list of reasons why women have all the privilege, and that was one of them. It was at this point that I gave up being annoyed and almost died laughing instead.

From:

Oh I think I saw it on that intellectually scintillating community known as

anti_feminism.

Honestly, it's like the dregs of the gene pool.

From:

reindeerflotila.livejournal.com

Acknowledgement frees me to learn and accept the priv's and to work to bring equality in those that I can, for example gender based inequalities etc. Or perhaps to challenge the patriarchal, heteronormative background in which we walk.

Apologistic reaction to the knowledge of those same priv's leads in me at least, to feelings of guilt, of shame and or/ a tendancy to reject the knowledge as it feels too huge to accomodate, to change. To better the world. So, apologists also tend to accept Blame. Which I do not, an example would be any discussion regarding slavery. I accept my cultural heritage regarding the issue, personally condemn it and would seek to end it were it present in the Now. However, it isn't in that I am not personally involved in people trafficking, nor have a ethnic-minority house slave at my beck and call, dependant on my good feelings towards them.
I am not responsible for what was done, and I will not be held personally responsible. 1

That is merely an example however.

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I'm just bemused.

I don't think I've ever been served first in the chip shop. The Laws Of Queue forbid it and I refuse to believe that any upstanding English chip shop owner would break The Laws Of Queue for any reason! My world couldn't cope with that concept.

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This was on a post on a friend's LJ. I was going to say "a debate", but it wasn't a debate until this one idiot appeared and started on the chips list. Also, ties are examples of female privilege, because they are an arrow pointing at your dick.

Another one of his arguments is that women can, at any time, claim "women's problems" and be let off anything. This includes walking out of meetings, and you will never be disciplined for anything you do as long as you claim "women's problems".

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Maybe not, but you'll never be promoted, given any kind of responsibility or taken seriously ever again.

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Mine neither, usually. I have been served first in the chip shop before, but that was one run by a family friend, a garrulous Italian, who could somehow manage to get everyone else to allow his friends to jump the queue, without causing offence to anyone.

Wizards do exist.

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Also, ties are examples of female privilege, because they are an arrow pointing at your dick.

Wow. Are they EVER going to learn that not everything is about their penises?

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