Education

[annwfyn]

This is why I loathe Labour with a passion.

This is why I will not vote Labour, under any circumstances, and would almost welcome David Cameron, just to put a stop to this.

There is no way this is reasonable! Why the hell are children being introduced to this hideous industrialised version of childhood. It's not acceptable. It's not reasonable. It's a systemic attempt to end childhood, and create this nasty little conveyor belt, which will suit a small percentage of children at the cost of the rest. It completely undermines parental choice, and won't even be good for most children in the long run.

From what some of the experts are saying, it's one step away from state mandated child abuse.

Gah!

Comments

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

And children in the UK already start school earlier than virtually anywhere else.

It's insane! Insane! And I say this as someone who started school before the age of five...

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

I started school at 4, and could already read by then, but that's not the point!

I learned to read because I wanted to, because I found books fun, because my mother played lots of fun games with me, whereby I drew the pictures for little books we were making ourselves and she wrote out the stories.

Then, when I didn't want to do that anymore, I went and played in the garden with Libby and Horse (Horse was a plastic Horse. Libby was insubstantial and of an uncertain xenotype). And that's how kids act.

I really find this offensive. Honestly, I don't understand why education needs to be standardized before the age of about 14. GCSEs, A levels etc - you need standard curriculum and tests. No one needs to know that every four year old in the country is doing the same thing.

*froths*

[sea-cucumber.livejournal.com]

*nods* My mum feels very strongly about this, she works at a nursery school and they keep getting sent stuff about targets for teaching their children. She says that they should be learning how to play and get social skills like how to interact with others, not being taught reading and maths and similar! She had to go on a course for it and didn't agree with any of what they were saying.

I know people who have left the country because of Labour's policies about children, so they can't be good! :S

[molez.livejournal.com]

That is very crazy...

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

Gosh, maybe we should put all our kids into cram schools from 4 - because that really really helps the kids....

Nope. This is a silly idea.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

Children need to play. They do not have the kind of attention span or brain-stamina that adults have, and that's because they're still in an early stage of development. They don't have the capacity for that kind of focussed learning, and at that age they're all at different developmental stages anyway...

By the way, do you remember what you learned in primary school?

[wildrogue.livejournal.com]

Without defending the policy (which I know nothing about, we don't do pre-school here) I feel I ought to point out that the Times are hugely biased in favour of the Tories. The policy is almost certainly not as bad as they make out and it probably wasn't introduced by stealth, it just wasn't announced with fanfare and fuss.

In Labour's favour their educational possibilities for 14-19 are pretty good. I can say that with some certainty since part of my job is keeping up to date with policy and comment on policy.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

Slightly alarmingly, yes. Quite a lot.

I remember learning about water, and how it works, and why it falls.

I have an encylopediacal knowledge of the Griffin Readers, which only Lyndhurst First School seemed to use and which are now impossible to find anywhere, and taunt me with their beautiful tales of pirates, dings, dongs and white wolves, which are now forever beyond my grasp.

I still remember the story I wrote when I was ten when I finished Lambourn Primary's English syllabus and was asked to sit in the corner and keep quiet for a year. Two exercise books later I had written my first (very bad) novel.

I also remember the words to all the hymns we learned, and I still remember struggling with the bloody times tables.

I think I'm a freak tho, and I'm sure I've forgotten a load of stuff.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

It's a daft idea.

I do sometimes really fret about having kids in this country. I keep hoping that policy will change, but right now I hate the way that Labour are pushing this control of childhood.

They've been really trying to push all children into properly licensed childcare from the age of 18 months up, within which they are also trying to introduce standardised testing (ie - 'can child sit up unaided?' type stuff), and that actually creeps me out.

No one needs to be testing babies! I also dislike the underlying assumption which is that mothers need to be in work whilst children are raised by trained professionals, which I find to be a thoroughly depressing philosophy.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I'm not sure that there's much spin needed on 'leading experts say Labour policy is hideously awful'.

The word 'stealth' may be misleading, but I don't feel there is much ambiguity about some of the comments made by experts in the article, and it does rather fit with what Labour has been doing for years!

[adze.livejournal.com]

So, when do kids get to be kids, then?

I don't like the sound of this.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

I would raise my kids in another country (when I have them) if I knew where to go and could get a job there!

It's really not a great set up right now...

[adze.livejournal.com]

I remember little bits of what I learned at Primary School. I remember learning to write, and I remember writing book reviews that were looked at funnily because they weren't just "I liked this book".

I also remember reading the Buccaneers series of books, about a boy who was somehow occasionally transported to a world of pirates for adventures, but I can't find them anywhere...

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

To dispute this, The Times is owned by Murdoch press, and the Murdoch press have been officially pro-Labour since 1995?

[melsner.livejournal.com]

You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

You! You behind the bike sheds! Stand still, laddie!

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

I've forgotten a lot of stuff. I know we did an entire term-long project on Egypt, I remember learning loads of Scottish History, and I don't remember a thing about it. I don't even remember anything about the project on Gladiators I did for Latin Standard Grade, and that was well after primary school.

I think it's fair to say that the only things I learned in primary school that are still with me today are reading and maths. And it's amazing how very rarely I have needed to know what 6 times 12 is :)

[twisted-times.livejournal.com]

I don't know about anyone else, but I learned very little academically that I use in the here and now, barring mental arithmetic. I scored 98% for my O Grade Arithmetic exam; it still slightly rankles that I managed to get one question out of 50 wrong even now.

The most important things you learn in Primary School are things like social interaction, rules and the love of learning.

[adze.livejournal.com]

72, he said, without really thinking about it. And you'd be surprised how often it comes up ;-)

I suppose that's what we really learned at primary school - the stuff that's now so ingrained on us that we don't notice it any more, like times tables, writing styles, spelling, that kind of thing.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

<nods> I think the rest - the history, the projects and the rest of it - is only there to ingrain in us the tools that we use to deal with them; the reading and writing, the arithmetic, and the thinking.

And I really don't think that there's any point in starting children on that any earlier than we already do, because their brains aren't developed enough to cope with it.

Take counting, for example; children can learn to say counting words in sequence quite easily, but it's a surprising amount of time before they're able to count how many objects there are in a group, or realise that if you rearrange those objects the number of them stays the same. What's the point of trying to teach them arithmetic before their brains are capable of dealing with that kind of basic concept?

[wildrogue.livejournal.com]

I'm sure leading experts do say it's awful. I'm equally certain that other leading experts say it's brilliant. There are always conflicts of opinion over this kind of policy.

[becky-spence.livejournal.com]

Hee! You too!! I finished off all the set books in primary school early, and they just gave up and let me have free run of the library to keep me quiet :) I used to have "how fast can I read" contests with my friends :)

RE: the actual news story .... no government ever listens to teachers or "experts". It seems to be a trend no matter what party's at the top.

[princessdiablo.livejournal.com]

From what some of the experts are saying, it's one step away from state mandated child abuse.

I just finished reading several articles about Sudan. The fact that we - as the West - can even think about something like this in terms of 'child abuse' brings home so strongly how privileged we truly are.

I'm so very thankful that these are our problems. I'm not saying you aren't, I'm just sharing my thoughts after reading the article you linked.

[windzswept.livejournal.com]

1. Not stealth. I knew about it when I was just starting my PGCE.

2. The whole concept of levels has gone out the window. I've got year 7s who are (apparently) working at a level 5 accordign to their KS2 SATs but can't add two fractions with different denominators (a skill that they should be able to do at Level 4) or know what to do to calculate an area or a perimeter.

3. Children should be taught to read young.

4. I was reading at play-school and for years Mum had a poster I did in play-school that was of a starry night sky and I'd written my name at the top and across the bottom in chalk I'd written "The night sky is full of stars and the moon." with capital letters and full stops. Then I went to school and had to learn how to read "red" and "blue" (ahem!)

5. I don't think they should be taught it formally. I think they should be 'taught' in a similar way to reception, with a lot of active learning, play and singing.

6. I hate the education system. I have two groups who are apparently working at the same level as each other (one in Yr7 and one in Yr9) but I honestly believe that out of the two the Yr9s are more capable at the lower level topics than my Yr7s are. (Hell, I taught Volume to my year 7s today (and yesterday), and I remember doing volume, area etc. when I was in bottom juniors)

7. One of my Year 13s summed it up today... "I didn't work hard last year, because it didn't really matter how I did, now, like every other year, there is something to aim for and a reason to work hard"

Students can't and don't know how to self motivate.
Students can't and won't empathise with others.
Students won't and don't follow instructions.
Students question the wrong things (like instructions), and don't ask questions when they should.
Students get too focused on the fact that they don't understand that they won't listen to the explanation.

Students need to learn social skills. They need to learn how to respect. They need to learn how to play nice. They need to learn how to make mistakes. They MUST start learning how to think. They need to learn how to apply knowledge and not just how to repeat actions.

The worst thing is, I don't have time when I receive these students at 11 to teach these things. I have too many exams. Too many deadlines. Too much stuff to do. I don't have time to stop and think myself let alone stop and teach my students to think.

I think I got off topic... ah well.

[windzswept.livejournal.com]

HA!

[inskauldrak.livejournal.com]

There was material about this in the public domain some time ago and the emphasis was on monitoring that small kids were developing these skills. Not testing the kids but ensuring that their nursery care was helping them develop - it's possible to get toddlers to learn through play.

Would you really rather there were no benchmarks by which parents could be reassured that their children were receiving the right support and care?

In terms of reading, it should also be pointed out that for years (and probably still to some extent) conditions like dyslexia went unnoticed until kids were in their teens (and before that, if ever) and maybe this could help identify these cases earlier so additional support can be given?

Also, I think people like you and I need to remember that we were lucky in having parents who encouraged reading etc whereas for some children nursery might provide a chance to provide that for children who otherwise won't.

As for Cameron's mob... I'll play nice, but remember what happened to our free milk? ; )

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

For some kids, nursery isn't the right age to be focussing on reading. I know kids who couldn't read until they were six or so. They turned out fine, and just weren't ready to develop until then. What this policy does it simply places pressure on children to develop along a standardized conveyor belt that won't be appropriate for a lot of kids, and could potentially put a lot of stress and pressure on families which very few need.

I'm also very uncomfortable with the fact that this legislation applies to schools like montessori, completely undermining the basic educational philosophy of these schools.

Honestly, I don't see the need for 'benchmarks' for children this young. Every child will be different at this age, and trying to fit them into a single mold is, in my opinion, a long way from ideal.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

That's a really good point, and I am lurching into hyperbole!

Not that I don't still want to rant about this, but that is a pretty decent dose of perspective. :)

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

I guess my main issue isn't whether children should be taught to read young, but whether children should be pushed into standardized education which leaves little room for creativity on the past of most teachers.

I basically dislike the 'testing' idea. I think if a kid can't read properly at the age of 5, it's not a big deal. I mean, kids don't start any kind of formal education in Sweden until they are 7, with pre-school at 6, and it isn't as if Sweden is falling behind the rest of the developed world.

[inskauldrak.livejournal.com]

It depends whether it's making kids 'fit' or having benchmarks so that if they're not at them it can be identified whether there is an actual problem that will need additional support or just that they're developing slightly differently.

It's a difficult one, but there was always that pressure. The difference I see is that this could be a comprehensive programme of encouragement and support versus the old model of many kids not turning out fine because they became labelled as 'stupid' rather than their educational needs being recognised early enough.

I'll be interested to hear what my Mum and a lot of her pals make of it, given their years as teachers in 'special needs' schools.

[hardwired.livejournal.com]

I would suggest not voting for the right wing racist party called Conservatives.

Because as bad as Labour can get, they were nothig like the tories.

And right now, the tories are this close to the BNP in terms of immigraton.

[inskauldrak.livejournal.com]

"I'll be interested to hear what my Mum and a lot of her pals make of it, given their years as teachers in 'special needs' schools."

Sorry, just to be clear that's meant to mean 'I'm genuinely interested' rather than suggesting they'll agree! ; )

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

Well, right now, I can't vote Labour. I'd rather gouge my own eyes out.

I can't vote Lib Dem, for random odd personal reasons.

*shrugs*

I will probably wind up not voting, which is mildly sucky, but there aren't many other places to go. I'm considering voting Green, but I know they have no chance of getting into power, and I can't think of many things worse than watching every last fragment of my civil liberties being ripped away without me doing a damn thing to stop it.

[cairmen.livejournal.com]

"it's one step away from state mandated child abuse"

I agree that there appear to be some serious concerns around this, but the above statement's a bit unusually hyperbole-heavy for you.

[cage-this.livejournal.com]

That frightens me.

[cleosilver.livejournal.com]

Home schooling is looking more and more tempting.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

Fair point. Well made.

I was being frothy rant girl, and not terribly coherent.

I think my logic is that I think freedom to think, to play, to not feel under pressure is very psychologically important to small children. Depriving them of that feels like it is potentially very damaging. Basically - this feels like a policy which would do bad stuff to kids.

Hence the 'child abuse'. In my head, and I may be wrong, this feels as slightly less harmful as re-introducing corporal punishment (which apparently didn't significantly harm many kids, but which is now viewed as abusive). So - same kind of thing, as opposed to 'it's like cutting their arms off'.

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

BTW, and this is an honest question, what specific policies do the Tories subscribe to at the moment which you would describe as 'racist'? I'm probably being dumb and just haven't read the right policy documents, but right now I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from.